Strong Belief Systems and Culture ft. Susanne Livingston

Welcome to another edition of The MikedUp Show! We’ve had a lineup of incredible guests on our podcast over the last couple of seasons, but we didn’t want our guests from the past to be left out of our meaningful discussions of today.

In mortgage, longevity is never accidental. It is built through discipline, cash management, culture, relationships, and the ability to make hard decisions before the market forces them upon you. A while back, we chatted with Susanne Livingston of RWM Home Loans and the conversation moved well beyond production numbers. What emerged was a powerful leadership playbook rooted in patience, people, servicing, transparency, and the belief that a mortgage company’s real strength is revealed when the going gets tough.

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CULTURE CAN BE YOUR RECRUITING STRATEGY

One of our favorite parts of the conversation with Susanne was her description of culture. After stepping in to help with recruiting, Susanne said she learned quickly that the company had a strong platform, but needed to drive production. Through that process, she became even more convinced that people want more than pricing and comp plans. “What is important to a company,” she said, “is that everyone has a seat at the table and feels as if they could be in a leadership position.”

That mindset shows up across RWM’s operations. Susanne’s leadership approach is focused on helping employees become the best version of themselves. During the downturn, some employees had to become “shape shifters,” taking on new roles and learning new skills. The key was making sure they felt valued, supported, and connected to the bigger mission. She also acknowledged that the company had become somewhat siloed in prior years. Teams were doing their jobs, but weren’t necessarily aware of how other departments meshed in the grand design. RWM responded by giving departments ownership over how to make the process better for the next team. This is an important point. Culture isn’t about buzzwords. Culture is what employees experience when everyone is being asked to do more with less.

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4:09 - 4:55 -- "You've got to have cash. When 2008 hit, some of our competitors who hadn't been stashing their cash...or were building businesses a little too fast kind of lost touch with their cash flow. If I could give any advice to people building companies, it's that you need to be conservative. Don't get out over your skis."

6:18 - 6:33 -- "I'm an open book so I like to share in successes. It's funny because some of my employees will say, "Why are we talking about this or that? It's kind of our secret sauce." I'm like, "No, it's fine. If it helps somebody else, don't worry about that.""

BUILDING FOR LONG-TERM STABILITY, NOT SHORT-TERM VOLUME

Susanne and her husband Brad started their company in 1994, in a very different mortgage environment. The company began with broker roots, but quickly moved toward mortgage banking because they saw the value of being in control of more of the overall process. As Susanne explained, the move from broker to banker was a “monumental shift” because it meant obtaining agency approvals, building infrastructure, and eventually creating the stability that comes from servicing.

That long-term view has shaped the way RWM operates. Susanne was direct about the lesson of prior cycles: companies that grow too fast, overextend, overbuild, and lose touch with reality put themselves in danger when the market turns. “If I could give any advice to people building companies,” she said, “you need to be conservative.” That word may not sound exciting in a business that often celebrates volume, expansion, and market share, but it is exactly the kind of discipline that keeps companies alive. Often it’s better to make changes slowly and intentionally, rather than chasing every opportunity at once.

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12:33 - 13:08 -- "In order for your culture to work, all your people must feel empowered so they can keep the production flow going. We invested in our operations over the last two years and then doubled down on all the things we can do for our sales force to get out in the marketplace and be experts in whatever marketing channel they want to specialize in. So every loan officer gets a customized marketing plan, if you will, because every area is different."

GOOD SERVICING CAN KEEP YOU AFLOAT WHILE OTHERS SINK

Our conversation also reinforced a point that many loan officers may not fully appreciate when they are evaluating where to work: servicing matters. Susanne explained that building a servicing portfolio has been critical to RWM’s longevity. The company began building servicing in 2020, and that income became especially important during the difficult market that followed. “I don’t think they realize that the income that is derived from a servicing portfolio can offset the losses that you’re experiencing today,” she said. That is a major strategic point. In a market where origination volume has been under pressure, servicing income can provide stability that allows a company to keep investing. This matters for recruiting because many loan officers focus first on comp, technology, pricing, or marketing support. Those things matter, but company stability matters too.

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SUPPORT, SYSTEMS, & SCALE - THE IMB ADVANTAGE

It’s a well-known diverging path within mortgage operations: the difference between the broker model and the independent mortgage banker model. Susanne was careful not to dismiss the broker channel outright. She started as a broker herself and understands why that model fits certain LOs. But she was clear that for originators who want support, systems, successful marketing, and scalability, the IMB model can offer a very different experience. ”Honestly, the service of the platform outshines the broker model entirely,” she said. That line captures the heart of RWM’s recruiting message. If a broker wants to ramp up production, the issue is not always product access. A broker can make money, but they may also stay too embedded in the file, spending energy and time on processing, follow-up, and other tasks that keep them from moving on. Good IMBs help LOs get out of their own way, with a time tested operational structure. The right platform should not make a loan officer smaller. It should help them become more focused, more productive, and more supported

Full episode

To hear more lively discussions and special guest insights in the realm of mortgages and real estate, check out TheMikedUp Show with Mike Kelleher and Michael Zau, every Thursday at 2pmET!

THE ABOVE IS A SUMMARY OF INSIGHTS & ANECDOTES TAKEN FROM AN HOUR-LONG PODCAST EPISODE OF THEMIKEDUP SHOW. MIKE & MIKE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO PARAPHRASE WHEREVER NECESSARY.